美国:你希望中国在崛起的道路上失败吗?

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论坛地址:http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-375962-1-1.html

I lived in China for four and a half years. I'm out now, met and married and a non-Chinese wife there, and we've saved a good chunk of change. Overall I say it was a good experience, but still had some frustrations, but nothing really awful that some have had here.

我曾经在中国待了四年半。在那儿,我遇见一位非中国籍的女性,并且和她结婚,我们拥有很多好的变化。当然现在我已经不在中国了。总的来说,那是一段美好的体验,虽然有一些挫折,但并没有一些人所说的真正可怕的事情发生。



Like many I really don't see a good future for China Economically. It seems that the protected upper class are very good at helping themselves and their buddies which doesn't include anyone else. Sure they lifted a good portion of their country out of absolute poverty, but now we have a middle class that is filled with angst and at least on the surface nationalism and petty rhetoric on man-made islands among other silly things. But I hate the idea of somehow having Western countries having to change to the Chinese rules. I want China to fail economically, and the bullies that are full of hot air to be taken down a notch or three. Who cares about 'face'. After four years in China, I'm really suspicious the fact that my country is thinking of letting China in 'the circle of trust'. I want China and its empty rhetoric to fall flat on its face. I feel terrible saying this, but I don't think I'm alone in this feeling.

就像许多人那样,我对中国经济的未来并不乐观。显而易见的是受保护的上层阶级很擅长维护他们自己和他们朋友的利益(不包括其他人)。当然,他们让一部分人从绝对贫困中脱离出来,但是我们现在有一个充满焦虑的中产阶级群体,表面上非常的民族主义,至少对南海造岛和其他一些破事儿颇有微词。但是我讨厌西方国家某种程度上必须改变对中国策略的想法。我希望中国经济崩溃,让那些夸夸其谈仗势欺人的混蛋低调点。没人在乎“面子”。四年后回到中国,我真心怀疑我的国家正在考虑将中国纳入“信任圈”。我希望中国和他空洞的辞令能够丢脸受挫。很抱歉说了这样的话,但是我认为并不是只有我才有这种感觉。(吐槽了外交部啊....)

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:33:00 +0800 CST  


I like to think I'm pretty open minded and easy going, but I found myself cheering when the stock market fiasco hit. I don't know exactly what changed, but it just seemed that I cheered when some rich but hollowed Chinese business guys lost a couple of million on short-sales or property speculation. Or laughing to myself as I read an article when China has 7% rise in GDP and just lie about everything. /China is great for that. How did I get so negative?

我想我是个开朗随和的人,但是当(中国)股灾来临的时候,我发现自己欢呼雀跃。我不知道到底是什么改变了。然而当一些有钱却虚伪的中国商人短期亏空几百万或者投资房地产失败,我都很高兴。当读到一篇文章说中国gdp成长7%,只是谎言(中国很擅长说谎),我忍不住大笑。我怎么会那么消极?

Well anyway thanks for reading my wall of text, I've talked about this a couple of times with some beers in China with unanimous agreement. I'm curious to reddit's feeling? /China is pretty negative sometimes, but honestly I feel the same way a lot of you do too. I'm glad I'm out for the most part, and maybe I would come back to China with my salary doubled and a good collection of face masks. So everything does have its price I suppose. I wish all of you in China the best of luck, and let the good days there outnumber the bad. You really do miss good Chinese food when you're out.

无论如何感谢你们阅读我的文章,在中国我就这个话题和许多酒友谈过,并且一致同意(我的观点)我很好奇论坛上的网友怎样想的。中国有时候确实很消极,但是说实话,我同样感到有很多可做的。绝大多数情况下我都庆幸自己离开了中国,但是也许我该回去领双倍的薪水和重拾口罩收藏的爱好。所以我想每件事都有其代价。我衷心祝愿在中国的各位能够好运,好事多于坏事。当你在离开中国,你将相当想念中国菜。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:34:00 +0800 CST  


Even if it was contrary to my opinion, thanks to your contribution!

尽管有些人的意见和我不同,还是感谢你们的回复!

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:34:00 +0800 CST  
评论翻译原创翻译:龙腾网http://www.ltaaa.com翻译:易燃易爆炸 转载请注明出处
论坛地址:http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-375962-1-1.html

[envatted_love 17 指標 20 天前
Absolutely not. /u/jingzi_factory put it quite well. In general, state failure is not good. I do hope the Chinese government liberalizes further though.
I'm aware of my hypocrisy but when many wealthy Chinese come to Canada, England, America, etc. they don't change at all, don't make an effort to integrate, and just walk around with a certain smug face and frankly I did the same thing when I was in China.
Good for you for recognizing this. Many don't.

当然不希望,你说的非常好。总的来说,国家衰弱不是个好事情。但我希望中国政府能够进一步开放。
“很多有钱的中国人到加拿大,英格兰,美国等等。他们根本不做任何变化,也不做任何努力去融入社会,仅仅是带着自以为是的表情到处闲逛。当然我在中国也做过同样的事情。 ”
很高兴你能意识到这一点,很多人不能。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:35:00 +0800 CST  
[ingzi_factoryMongolia 46 指標 20 天前
Of course not.
Economic weakness in China almost certainly would be contagious
I don't want to see Chinese people, especially close ones, be in a worse position
Political instability could kill a lot of people
Unfortunately, I don't think the way the government is handling things will help fix that. I think that if relinquishing control of some aspects of society could help improve the economy, I would do it as a leader, but the CCP seems too hellbent on maintaining control, which will only bite them in the long run.
Ideally, China gradually reforms and becomes a more open and free society, as it had been doing a decade ago.

当然不希望。
1、中国的经济疲弱绝对会传染到(全球)。
2、我不希望看见中国人,特别是和我关系好的,陷入困难的境地。
3、政治形势的不稳定能够杀死很多人。
不幸的是,我不认为政府的处理方式能够解决这个问题。我想如果能够在某个方面放弃国家管控对经济提升有好处。如果我是领导人我就这么干,但是tg好似不是这么想,他们坚持国家干预,这会长时间地拖经济后腿。
理想情况下,中国将逐步进行改革,并成为一个更加开放和自由的社会,这个过程在十年前就开始了。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:35:00 +0800 CST  
Calam1tousUnited States 12 指標 20 天前
Agreed. Above all, I just want the Chinese people to be better off.

同意,首先就是让中国人民更富裕。

scionicate 9 指標 20 天前
Ideally, China gradually reforms and becomes a more open and free society, as it had been doing a decade ago.
I just don't see it happening. They can't handle a recession and it's all a house of cards. Allowing for contraction breaks the social contract and the party loses the last bit of positive legitimacy it has left.

“理想情况下,中国将逐步进行改革,并成为一个更加开放和自由的社会,这个过程在十年前就开始了。 ”
我怎么就没感觉到这些发生呢?tg不能解决经济衰退,它只是个纸牌屋(不牢靠)。允许收缩,打破社会契约,dang已经失去最后一点执政合法性,它必须被推翻。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:35:00 +0800 CST  
palbuddy1234[S] 3 指標 20 天前
Well isn't that the thing about governments? The number one goal of any government official is to maintain their control, and their high status? As another poster said, I do want an ego-check though. I was sick of the 'silly foreigner, you don't understand China'. I never was highly critical in front of a Chinese person (it's just rude IMO) but sometimes I wondered if they could see the forest from the trees.

(国家干预)那不就是政府所做的事吗?任何政府官员的头号目标难道不是维持他们的控制以及他们的地位?正如另一张海报所说的,我确实想要一个自我检查。我厌倦了“愚蠢的外国人,你不了解中国”。我从来没有在一个中国人面前进行批判(这是一个粗鲁的行为),但有时候我想让他们知道“一叶障目,不见森林”(总体看问题,不要着眼于局部)

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:36:00 +0800 CST  
TheDark1 8 指標 20 天前
The number one goal of any government official is to maintain their control, and their high status?
Wait, did G.W. Bush firebomb the white house on the way out the door? What do you mean? Most governments put the good of the nation about the good of the rulers.

“任何政府官员的头号目标难道不是维持他们的控制以及他们的地位? ”
等下,布什在出门的路上会把白宫炸毁吗?【不知道什么梗】你到底什么意思?大多数政府都把国家的利益放在统治者的利益之前。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:37:00 +0800 CST  
sturle 0 指標 19 天前
Always have a plan, because some days China will kick your butt!
Always have a plan, and go for it before China chicks your butt.

你总得有个计划,因为某天中国会踢你的pp(叫你滚蛋)!
是啊,在中国叫你滚蛋之前实行计划。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:38:00 +0800 CST  
Aan2007 2 指標 20 天前*
sadly since in eyes of majority of Chinese China=CCP I have to say i wanna see China fail even when it will hurt my family, but people in general should get real and open their eyes in what an shithole without laws they live if this means it should be followed by some country where rule of law is followed, people have to deal with consequences of their actions and majority of population should realize where they stand in the world from their selfcentered arrogant view ingrained in them by government and start to act civil and civilized and stop being selfish communist pigs who see only themself always above everyone around them with zero respect for other people rights

可悲的是在大多数人眼里,“中国=中国共产党”。我不得不说我希望看见中国失败,尽管这会伤害到我的家庭。中国人该醒醒了,睁开你们的眼睛,看看这该死的现实吧!你们生活在没有法治的社会里。这意味着你们应该追随(学习)那些法制国家,人们必须承担自己行为所造成的后果。大多数人都该从政府给你们灌输的根深蒂固自我为中心的观念中清醒,认识自己在这个世界中真正的定位,同时开始学习举止文明,变得有礼貌,而不是变成自私自利的共产主义猪。(他们将自己凌驾于他人之上,一点都不尊重他人的权利。)O(∩_∩)O哈!好酸!!!

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:38:00 +0800 CST  
since we know this behavior is part of communist culture from Eastern Europe and it take generations to change I don't see normal evolving way hire to change it without clean cut of CCP away

我知道这个行动是东欧共产主义文化的一部分,需要几代人来改变。但是没有清除掉tg,我看不到任何渐进变革的迹象。

Individual99991 8 指標 20 天前
/China is great for that. How did I get so negative?
Reverse those sentences and you probably have your answer.

颠倒这个句子,你就能得到答案。
(原文是指中国很擅长数据造假,但是此人断章取义,颠倒之后,意思就变味“你这么消极,是因为中国很优秀。”)

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:39:00 +0800 CST  
Monkeyfeng 5 指標 20 天前
I want the Chinese communist party to fail not the country and its people.

我希望tg失败而不是中国和它的人民。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:39:00 +0800 CST  
potato7890 10 指標 20 天前
I don't like their government's attitude so I want all 1.3 billion people to pay for the annoyances that I've suffered

我不喜欢他们政府的态度,所以我想要13亿人民赔偿我的遭受的困扰。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:39:00 +0800 CST  
butteredupfatman 7 指標 20 天前
No, I don't want any generalized group of people to fail. Countries have pros and cons and I try not to enforce my beliefs on other people. I only wish for increased standard of living and health/environment for my Chinese brothers and sisters.

不,我不希望看到任何人失败。每个国家都有其优点和缺点,我只能尽量做到不把我个人的信仰强加于他人。我只希望中国人的生活水平和环境条件能够提高。

lordtiandaoUnited States 3 指標 20 天前
A Chinese economic failure will bring down a lot of other countries. World economies are too interconnected. So the answer is no.

中国经济的崩溃会对其他国家产生影响。世界经济联系地太紧密了,所以我的答案是“no”

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:40:00 +0800 CST  
XiChenYang 2 指標 20 天前*
There is some similarity between your thoughts on China and my thoughts on US, as a chinese expat to US.

作为一个待在美国的中国人,你对中国的看法和我对美国的看法一致。

It seems that the protected upper class are very good at helping themselves and their buddies which doesn't include anyone else.
That's exactly the US.

显而易见的是受保护的上层阶级很擅长维护他们自己和他们朋友的利益(不包括其他人)。
这不就是美国嘛!

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:40:00 +0800 CST  
But I hate the idea of somehow having Western countries having to change to the Chinese rules.
I hate how China has to play by western countries' rules and listen to their hypocritical lecturing. In fact, every single countries outside of the west hate this. It is not just China.

但是我讨厌西方国家某种程度上必须改变对中国策略的想法。
我也讨厌中国必须遵循西方的标准行事,听他们虚伪的说教。事实上,欧美之外的国家都讨厌这一点,不仅仅是中国。

I want China to fail economically, and the bullies that are full of hot air to be taken down a notch or three.
I am not sure about the first part, but I do want nothing more than the American bullies to be taken down a notch or three.

我希望中国经济崩溃,让那些夸夸其谈仗势欺人的混蛋低调点。
对于第一点我有不同的观点,不过我同样希望美国那些夸夸其谈的家伙低调点。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:41:00 +0800 CST  
I wasn't a bad foreigner I think, but if someone was in my home country, I think I would expect them to play along with our rules. I'm aware of my hypocrisy but when many wealthy Chinese come to Canada, England, America, etc. they don't change at all, don't make an effort to integrate, and just walk around with a certain smug face and frankly I did the same thing when I was in China.
I can guarantee that an average Chinese or Asian immigrant to US adapted and tried to integrate much more than an average western immigrant to China. The average Chinese immigrant speaks much better English than an average western immigrant does Chinese.
In fact, the problems come from the Asian immigrant trying to assimilate so much that they lose all identity and pride. In turn, they are mired in self hate and get mocked by society. Now they are trying to regain their identity and learning to refuse to play by white people's rules. This is the Asian American struggle.

我想我并不是一个坏外国人,但是如果有人到了我的祖国,我希望他们能够遵循我们的规则行事。我意识到我是如此的虚伪,然而很多有钱的中国人到加拿大,英格兰,美国等等。他们根本不做任何变化,也不做任何努力去融入社会,仅仅是带着自以为是的表情到处闲逛。当然我在中国也做过同样的事情。
我可以向你保证来自中国或者亚洲的移民比西方的移民一般花费了更多的努力改变自己,尝试融入社会主流。中国移民说的英语普遍比西方移民说的中文好。
事实上,造成这些问题的原因是亚洲移民太努力尝试同化了,以致于失去自己的文化认同感和骄傲。反过来他们陷入了自我仇恨同时被社会耻笑。现在他们尝试重新找回自己的身份,并开始学会拒绝白人的规则。这就是亚裔美国人的斗争。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:41:00 +0800 CST  
I feel like China wants to be in the country club ... But in the meantime everyone will cringe whenever he opens his mouth.
Your attitude like a lot of westerners are very hypocritical and entitled. You wished to be welcomed everywhere, but do not want to welcome anyone else to "join your club". You want everyone else to change and adapt to you, but never want to change and adapt to anyone else.
It seems like this mentality pervades both personal situation on the small scale and political situations on the large scale.

我感觉中国想加入国际俱乐部。。。。。。但在此期间,无论他什么时候开口,每个人都会卑躬屈膝。
你的态度就像很多西方人那样虚伪和傲慢。你希望走到哪里都被欢迎,但是却不想欢迎其他任何人加入你所谓的“俱乐部”。你想要其他任何人改变自己去迁就你,却从不想想改变自己去适应别人。
这种心态普遍存在,小至人和人的相处,大到国家之间的政治博弈。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:42:00 +0800 CST  
Once I realized we wouldn't be let in ...
I always find it very annoying when white people whine about this, when they don't even speak Chinese fluently, ignore and dismiss all Chinese social rules as backwards. Then they expect to be accepted everywhere, having more social mobility than even an average Chinese has.
If a Chinese or Asian immigrant speak the level of English that an average white expats do, and behave in an ignorant fobby way, disregarding western white social rules, it is a guarantee that they will get laughed out of every single social situation.
Whatever social rejection you feel, it is reciporated many time over to an Chinese or Asian immigrant, at the same level of personal effort towards assimilation.

然而一旦我意识到,我们并不真的容许进入(社会主流)
我特别烦白人抱怨这个,当他们甚至都不能说一口流利中文的时候,就忽略和排除中国所有的社会规则。然后他们期待在每个地方都被接受,比一般中国人拥有更多社会特权。
如果一个中国或者亚洲移民说着白人移民平均水准的英语,行为愚昧白痴,不理会西方白人社会的规则,我能保证不论他们在哪儿,都会被嘲笑。
你感受的到社会排斥,一个中国或者亚洲移民会反复感受到很多次,然后付出努力进行融入。

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:42:00 +0800 CST  
完。看了许多美国评论发现这个国家简直太......确实是目前世界最强

楼主 新生水军卡卡西  发布于 2015-11-21 20:44:00 +0800 CST  

楼主:新生水军卡卡西

字数:12867

发表时间:2015-11-22 04:33:00 +0800 CST

更新时间:2019-04-01 21:29:49 +0800 CST

评论数:62条评论

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